15 Minutes

[catelin]

I would ask that you take at least three minutes of silence, and sit there in silence and realize, realize how long it takes for a child to lose voluntary control of their body,. --Kaylynn Williford--one of the prosecutors in the Yates trial

Maybe I've seen too many dead kids to have compassion for the people who make them dead. Perhaps I am too familiar with the physical mechanics of what it takes for a little body to give up and quit working. I know more about this case than I care to and I'm not going to argue about my views on it. I've seen plenty of monsters and Mrs. Yates is the worst fucking kind.

Oh...wait...scratch that...her husband's worse.

Comments

[maya12.livejournal.com]

I look at my nieces (4 and 7) and I just cannot believe how....

[meester-gone.livejournal.com]

yeah.

[magikgrrl.livejournal.com]

No doubt.

[chaizzilla.livejournal.com]

her husband's worse

that's scary. the nation of two goes terminal. i know there's all kinds of issues that muddy this up, but w/o thinking too deeply on it, in an ideal society or world or whatever i think i'd love to see mandatory counseling for parents, just something to ping the world kids are stuck with & make sure everybody's ok in there. at first the story just rang with Lost when i tried to imagine being there, but this thing with the husband is creepy bad, the twist. there's damaged and then there's *that* kind of damaged, the people that are why intentional defenselessness isn't compassionate.

[catelin.livejournal.com]

there's damaged and then there's *that* kind of damaged, the people that are why intentional defenselessness isn't compassionate.

Profoundly well said, C.

So horrible, so true.

[jourdannex.livejournal.com]

I agree with you here Catelin.

I keep seeing people say they cannot believe she was not found guilty by reason of insanity. I don't care if she is insane or not, I keep seeing in my head a woman who had the pre-thought to drown the oldest one first so there was no one to help the younger ones. I see someone who depsite all their cries of "she is ill" who deserves no mercy.

So what, she was suicidal? Then do your children, your family and yourself a favour and take just your own life. Remove the disease.

What about a man who knew she had these sort of problems who continued to breed with her? Does he not share an iota of what has transpired. You do not leave children alone with a crazy person, but you are included as one of the insane if you leave your children home alone with a person you knew was this crazy.

Re: So horrible, so true.

[catelin.livejournal.com]

Mr. Yates can thank his lucky stars that he doesn't live in my county of jurisdiction, because I would have had him in jail right along with her.

[lolliejean.livejournal.com]

I agree. I also believe in capital punishment and think that's the answer here.

[catelin.livejournal.com]

I'm betting that the Houston jurors will agree with you.

yes, it is apphauling.

[tamperevident.livejournal.com]

sometimes i wonder if people should be required to take a test, before they can obtain a license to have children. you already need a license to drive a car, and to have a pet... because it is thought to be a good idea to make sure that you are not a hazard to others. but i think many people would have a real problem with this idea.

Re: yes, it is apphauling.

[catelin.livejournal.com]

My cynical theory is that, as a society, we value our property more than our children...and our laws reflect that.

[ernunnos.livejournal.com]

You'll get no argument from me.

Crazy?

[ex-dirk966.livejournal.com]

Is she just plain crazy? I just cant help but feel that anyone who does this to their own children must be crazy. Could a sane person do this for no gain whatsoever? And should we execute people who commit crimes of insanity?

Re: Crazy?

[catelin.livejournal.com]

That's always been the interesting issue in these kinds of cases. Most "ordinary" people assume that a fellow human being MUST be CRAZY to commit acts of which we simply cannot conceive. I think that makes it easier for people to swallow...easier to avoid confronting the barbaric nature of our species. Most days I think we're still Kubrick's apes (albeit a little less hairy) beating each other to death with bones. All kinds of sane people do all kinds of insane shit to each other...that's the nature of the beasts that we are. As for this particular beast, she was certainly not "crazy" under our current definition in the law (which is similar to many other states).

[leisaie.livejournal.com]

Personally, m'dear, it is her husband I find at fault. But then, I don't have children, and I am still probably being naive about the entire Yates case. But how could a man leave his suicidal wife alone with 5 young lives? That is utterly inconceivable to be, quite as much so as Andrea Yates murdering the children. He was love-blinded, I suppose, but that isn't an excuse- if the entire world functioned without the power of clarity in our decisions, then we would not have gotten this far. He conciously turned his back to the cuts on her arms and the scratches she left on her own face...and that is the crime, the concious is convicted, and not the insane.
Law, however, is too much for me- and in my family, it is the only thing I ever hear. All I can do is turn away and hope that my wishes for the lives of the children to be magically restored will be passionate enough to come true.

[emrecom.livejournal.com]

I think's she insane.

I think--I know--there are, unfortunately, far worse than her. Sociopathic predators. Repeaters.

I don't think she should be killed, not because she should be spared, but because it encourages the death penalty, which isn't so much wrong, as useless when applied by humans.

Especially American humans. You end up with (then) Gov. Bush happily throwing the switch on 154 people. What amazing trust he has that the judicial system will be blind to race, color, religion, sex, sexual orientation.

Isn't it good to know that juries are *always* right?

And that's why I don't think she, or anyone, should be executed. What worse punishment could there be than for her to live in her head in a small room alone for the rest of her life? You kill her, her pain's over. What punishment is that?

[catelin.livejournal.com]

What worse punishment could there be than for her to live in her head in a small room alone for the rest of her life?

I could think of a few. But seriously, I don't see the point in keeping someone like her alive.

[wisteria.livejournal.com]

Oh man.....

That quote got to me.

3 minutes....

*shudder*

How are you able to deal with this type of stuff on a regular basis?? God, Cate, I don't know how you deal with it! ~deb

[catelin.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it's amazing how long three minutes actually is if you think of it in those terms.


Dealing with this stuff?? I don't know sometimes how I do it. I cry. A lot. And I laugh. A lot. : )

[nandan.livejournal.com]

She shouldn't be killed for murdering her children, she should be killed for continuing to get pregnant after being diagnosed with mental illness and severe depression. Her husband should be tortured and then killed.

Why does her husband and lawyer want to save her from the death penalty? Surely, it's the kindest thing that could happen to a mother who'd killed her children?

[catelin.livejournal.com]

I'm amazed that they aren't prosecuting the husband.

[fabulist.livejournal.com]

Hmmmm. I'm glad that there are so many people in this thread with enough understanding of mental illness as to assume that "crazy" people should be able to just sit down and say to themselves, "oh dear, I seem to be insane again, I should go to one of those extremely common and affordable mental health treatment centers and have them quickly fix what's wrong with me so I can go back to being a good citizen." Life's easy when you have simple solutions like that, ain't it?

Maybe I'm insane, because I just can't fathom how people can describe themselves as compassionate and yet switch that compassion on and off when the mood strikes. In my mind, you either are compassionate, or you're not--you can't play both sides of the game just because you're suffering from the modern affliction of "compassion fatigue," or because you've set an arbitrary standard on where compassion ends and retribution begins.

I've just read the writings of a lot of people who have never met this woman, who know very little about the case beyond what the media vomit up for our deranged curiousity, and yet think she, her husband, and whomever else irks their sense of righteous indignation should be killed or tortured. Maybe I'm insane, because I'm way more afraid of that kind of the almost universal monstrous lust for blood and revenge than I am of one sad, sick religious fanatic who flipped out and did something unthinkable. Yates didn't kill her children alone--she killed them with the complicity of a nation busily shrieking about their moral indignation on every subject while refusing to do one damned thing about mental health because "boo hoo, it'll cost the taxpayers too much and we desperately need that money to buy big screen TVs and SUVs and Playstations, and besides, mental illness isn't even a real illness, dang it!"

I've seen the monsters, and they are US.

[catelin.livejournal.com]

Thanks so much for setting us all straight.

[kissel.livejournal.com]

Without reading the posts of others, I will go on record as saying Mrs Yates should be hanged.

[anoisblue.livejournal.com]

I'm up in the middle of the night and just discovered it's your birthday Cate. Happy Birthday. I hope you have a beautiful day.

I'll save you from my thoughts on this. This is your journal, your feelings, and your place to pour it out.

[fabulist.livejournal.com]

Seconded--happy birthday, Cate!

[spleenless.livejournal.com]

I've stayed out of the fray on this one. I do understand the need to vent and to post from the gut. We don't agree on this one, but I know that immersion in the kinds of horror you deal with can change views.

Good luck fixing the universe. I'm working on my corner of it over here ;-)

[kuangning]

I'll hold my peace on Andrea Yates, and only pop in to say Happy Birthday. I hope it's a wonderful day for you.

totally off topic

[froglegs.livejournal.com]

I just dropped by to wish you a happy birthday. I never expected to find all this! I hope your day is a beautiful one. And I, for one, think the picture of your children is adorable.

Happy Birthday

[ex-friedrich47.livejournal.com]

Happy Birthday, Catelin!

[windlasher.livejournal.com]

got room for one more AMEN to that...

[theodicy.livejournal.com]

I vacillate so wildly here on this issue. I don't understand how anyone could harm five children, methodically, and I do remember reading that she had tried, before, and been caught at it. I don't understand how she could have continued to kill when her children struggled. I don't understand how her husband never saw what was going on when, after their deaths, there was a wealth of information suggesting she desperately needed help. And I don't understand how anyone can claim he loves his children and his wife when he seems to have been living for months in blinkered and practically criminal denial.

Advocate that I am for increased and destigmatized mental health benefits, I have also been on the other side of the fence. Ultimately, my pity and pain are for the children. They had no defense whatsoever.