catelin: (Default)
catelin ([personal profile] catelin) wrote2001-06-20 12:38 pm

(no subject)

From a recent post in Feministas:

I have pondered for a while what to write here in the way of an introduction. Here's my story:


I was the greatest hope (like all the other women born in this age) of my mother's generation. Born in the sixties, I was raised to believe that I could do anything without regard to gender. Like all of us born then, I discovered that others didn't see it that way...men and women alike. I was heartbroken when I was forced off an all boys soccer team (the only kind back then...girls leagues came much later) because "someone might hit my breasts." I learned quickly that smart girls were not popular in school. I did what any self-respecting teenager of the time would do...I sold out. I chased boys; I giggled; I flirted; I wore too much makeup; I dreamed of being the Barbie in Barbie's Dream Wedding. I even met Gloria Steinham briefly when I was fifteen. She impressed me, but couldn't compete with my crush on the guy who sat behind me in algebra. I became everything that my mother had hoped I wouldn't.

In college, I became an art house feminist. I read all the books. I quit wearing make-up. I dressed in black. I kissed and groped girls instead of boys. I sat with my self-anointed nouveau Bohemian friends, railing against male-dominated culture between sips of espresso and drags from our overpriced imported cigarettes. I knew all the right words. I could argue theory with the best and brightest. But it was all show. I didn't start to get it until I had my own kids years later. Until my father quit speaking to me because I wasn't married. Until I had to explain twelve-thousand times that I wasn't divorced--I'd just never been married. Until I started to think about what kind of men I wanted to raise...how I wanted them to see the women they knew...and women in general. I look now at the girls who start painting their faces and their hair when they're in elementary school, who start fucking when they're barely old enough to have periods. I live in an age when women are objectified (and, quite frankly, objectify themselves) more than my mother's generation could have ever endured or imagined. I still read the books. I still listen to my mother. I still think Gloria Steinham is cool beyond cool. And I still hold out hope that one day we can all get our shit together and start this revolution from the inside out.

[identity profile] razorart.livejournal.com 2001-06-20 11:14 am (UTC)(link)
VERY well-put!!
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[identity profile] catelin.livejournal.com 2001-06-20 11:25 am (UTC)(link)
Tank yew! Hey, send me on some info, etc. regarding your upcoming book and I'll give ya some shameless promotion on my site. There's plenty more people out there that need to read your words! : )

[identity profile] viedma.livejournal.com 2001-06-20 11:46 am (UTC)(link)
I went through s'thing similar, just different time frame. i was raised a lot like you, and also wanted to fit in just as badly, much to the chagrin of my mother-- people can call it "selling out" or "giving in", but i don't think those people remember how all encompassing a thing like peer pressure can be. even if no one is saying to you "be this way, you'll be cool if you do it," you still feel it surrounding you, a big unspoken thing.

i feel like the generation before us will always be afraid for the next-- they seem so careless, so unsocialized and so primed for big fuckups, and i know i want to tell them to not do all the stupid stuff i did, but i think it's inevitable for people to stumble in the same places. i just worry about the ones who never seem to get it together.

Maybe we need to get it together at an earlier age? Socializing young women so that they don't automatically look for the approval in the eyes of (sometimes predatory) strangers seems like a start. but what a huge thing it is to buck against the grain like that, esp when we all, men and women alike, crave being accepted and liked.

anyway, thanks for letting me ramble, Catelin!
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[identity profile] catelin.livejournal.com 2001-06-20 01:32 pm (UTC)(link)
I really wonder sometimes what it would take to counteract all of the negative images that young women are bombarded with on a daily basis...and it's hard to point at any single influence since there are so many around (but while I'm at it, I'd like to give a big FUCKYOU to the pathetic wankers at MTV). I think you are right, though...no matter what we are shown, by example or otherwise, we all have to find our own way to our personhood. That's not just a woman thing; that's an everybody thing. Oh, and feel free to ramble anytime!

[identity profile] viedma.livejournal.com 2001-06-20 01:55 pm (UTC)(link)
I see you that hearty Fuck You and raise it with an Eat Shit and Die, MTV. Back when i was blanking on my paper i turned on the tv to MTV and Vh1, and it was so depressing, even more so thinking that there are girls and women out there who feel compelled to follow their lead. it's nice to drop out of a lot of culture and pick and choose what you like.

Concerning the last paragraph...

[identity profile] leisaie.livejournal.com 2001-06-20 01:10 pm (UTC)(link)
I hope that's not all you see when you look at girls today, Cate. There's still some of us out there who have developed fairly stable ideals, and, wonder of wonders, managed to keep them. We're not hopeless-yet.
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Re: Concerning the last paragraph...

[identity profile] catelin.livejournal.com 2001-06-20 01:36 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh no! That's definitely not all I see. I do see enough of it, however, to be a bit disturbed by the thought that things may be getting worse instead of better. On the other hand, there are some very bright and together gals (and young men, for that matter) out in the world--which amazes me because I think each generation has had ever more bullshit to deal with.

Re: Concerning the last paragraph...

[identity profile] leisaie.livejournal.com 2001-06-20 03:08 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes, I know, my school is AWFUL!!!!!!!!!

[identity profile] blackmagic.livejournal.com 2001-06-20 01:22 pm (UTC)(link)
amen. i'm terrible distressed about how our culture teaches young women to regard themselves, and i wish there was an easy fix or something i could do aside from shout about it whenever i get a chance. this constant superficiality and objectification of people in general is responsible for so much pain and hardship in this world. i'm amazed that anyone recovers from it... some do... but i've never met someone entirely abstracted from it.

i too hope that another revolution hits, one that holds and causes some change.

oh what i wouldn't do for all the cosmopolitan rags to loose the right to airbrush their photography for even just one issue...
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[identity profile] catelin.livejournal.com 2001-06-20 01:38 pm (UTC)(link)
Viva la revoluci?n! It starts with you. : )

[identity profile] blackmagic.livejournal.com 2001-06-20 01:44 pm (UTC)(link)
true dat.

[identity profile] lizzimonster.livejournal.com 2001-06-20 09:38 pm (UTC)(link)
Senior year of high school I took a women's studies class (great class). As is tradition for the class, we made posters with facts and statistics taken mostly from The Women's World Atlas. One girl made a poster with anorexic women, sortof before and after pictures. A lot of people were really offended and disgusted, but I think the most stunning part of that is that only that one poster was offensive to people's sensibilities. Everything we put on those posters was equally disgusting and wrong and unexpected in this time of assumed equality.
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[identity profile] catelin.livejournal.com 2001-06-22 07:24 am (UTC)(link)
Do you think that was so much a symptom of the apathy about women's issues--or perhaps just that it takes a lot (i.e. graphic images, etc.) to shock anyone these days at all?

Re:

[identity profile] lizzimonster.livejournal.com 2001-06-22 03:49 pm (UTC)(link)
A little bit of column A, a little bit of column B. It does take a lot to shock these days, since so much is just entertainment. But I think that if the statistics we had put up had pertained to racism (I never remember the precise year, but one of my "favorite" posters said that it would take about four hundred years for women to gain equality at this rate), for example, they would have been taken more seriously.*

*-by southern Maine private high school students.

Amen, Sistah!!

[identity profile] cathead9.livejournal.com 2001-06-21 10:52 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm the same age as you and I know exactly what you mean. Except that I went through a long phase of dressing as unfeminine as possible and being bitter that I had no boyfriends. I had loads of guy friends, but they told me that they didn't think of me a "girl", because I didn't wear dresses, flirt, etc. That made me even more angry. I came out of that phase, but still, it's pathetic that so many men really hate women. The double standard still exists. I was fortunate enough to find a man who genuinely likes women, but there's not many around.
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Re: Amen, Sistah!!

[identity profile] catelin.livejournal.com 2001-06-22 07:20 am (UTC)(link)
I went through a phase like that when I was about thirteen. I cut all my hair off (when it wasn't consider cute--just weird) and I really wanted to just be a boy so I could keep doing all these things that boys got to do. There seem to be a lot more opportunities for women these days, and I'm not so sure it's a feminist issue as much as an issue of the generalized devaluation of personhood, regardless of gender. Thirty-something and from Texas---I'm sure we share a lot of common experiences...don't even get me started talking about how much I abhor high school football! Heh! Thanks for letting me know you were out there! : )

[identity profile] sorrento.livejournal.com 2001-06-21 11:17 pm (UTC)(link)
Your kids will take for granted that women are to be regarded as no less or more than humans. Anything they learn about "traditional" gender roles will be foreign and nonsensical to them. Their most influential example right in front of them.
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Right On!

[identity profile] catelin.livejournal.com 2001-06-22 07:21 am (UTC)(link)
If that's the way it all turns out, Shane, I will have done a job I can be very proud of!! : )

Re: Right On!

(Anonymous) 2001-06-24 08:55 am (UTC)(link)
I figure that as long as you instill in your boys a strong sense of truth, justuce and the un-American way, yer still in the revolution.

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Re: Right On!

[identity profile] catelin.livejournal.com 2001-06-24 02:35 pm (UTC)(link)
Heh! Exactly!

Depressed

[identity profile] kissel.livejournal.com 2001-06-24 09:29 am (UTC)(link)
Being a single dad of an almost 8yr old girl, I have so much to get ready for.
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Re: Depressed

[identity profile] catelin.livejournal.com 2001-06-24 02:34 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh, I don't know...from what I've seen of you so far, I'd say you're definitely up to the task. : )

Some ill formed thoughts on Feminism

[identity profile] nandan.livejournal.com 2001-06-27 06:40 am (UTC)(link)
I've looked long and hard for people my own age on LJ. It's great to hear a varient of my own experience of growing up in the late '70's expressed so succinctly and so well. I'm a 1964 baby too! Year of the Dragon, the New York City World's Fair, and the Beatles Invasion!

So many of my experiences with feminism, are similar to yours. I really believed that equal opportunity existed, I swore I would never get married (a useless convention), and I flirted with feminist/lesbianism/art crowd in college. I was a cheerleading drop out in high school. In fact, my entire squad dropped out, because in 1978, suddenly it wasn't "cool" to be a female cheerleader. It was just so evidently a stupid way to waste your time.

Imagine my shock in the 1980's/90's when Paula Abdul was able to use being an LA cheerleader to catapult her into fame. I had to rethink some of my attitudes, and realize that there might be a payoff for women using their sexuality, their cheerleaderness, if you will, to get ahead in life. Women and men are not the same, there are some things we will never do as well, so how do we stake out a claim for our own turf, without resorting to objectifying our bodies? I haven't found an answer to that one. But I do know, that getting on 40, objectifying my body is no longer a realistic alternative. And I'm approaching the age where women are said to simply "disappear".

I remain committed to calling myself a feminist. I get so angry when 20-something women who are taking advantage of career opportunities their mothers would never have dreamed of refuse to call themselves feminists. I worry about the new generation of stay-at-home moms who not only won't reap the benefits of work experience, a pension and 401K plans, but won't have the same access to alimony and child support as the 1950's generation did. I am sensitive to the fact that the female sex is different, and it is very difficult to codify these differences in law. For example, the idea that men can claim alimony enrages me, and the idea that a man should be considered equal to a woman in a custody fight (assuming she is a fit parent) seriously disturbs me.

I do think that the personal relationships between men and women have improved with women's access into the working world. I think in general we have gained our spouse's respect, and hopefully our coworkers, as well as a closer communion based on shared experiences of the working world. I feel that possibly the rampant woman hating of the 1960's commedies (commedy?)may be over. But I know we haven't found all the answers.

I'd be honored if you'd pop by my journal sometimes to say Hi. You sound like a woman I'd love to know better.
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Re: Some ill formed thoughts on Feminism

[identity profile] catelin.livejournal.com 2001-06-27 06:08 pm (UTC)(link)
It is so interesting to me how experience really seems to be generational. I remember all of the things you talk about...the coolness of the cheerleader set and then the complete turnabout...and yet another round of coolness in the 90s. It's a constantly turning wheel. If I had to label what I am, I suppose feminist would be part of it. I am simultaneously alarmed and overjoyed by some of the changes in society over the past few decades...for all of us, not just women. Overall, though, I'm hopeful. I was tickled pink to hear from someone my age. I always keep an eye out for my contemporaries. If we are to disappear when we are fortyish, then at least we can do it together. : )