The key concept to suicide is that you fucking kill YOURSELF. Why is it, then, that someone decides to take some other poor sap along for the ride? I personally have never understood the idea of wanting to make oneself dead. I've got too much of a survivor instinct. You're in a plane crash in the Andes with me, I will be using my pocket knife to make ass steaks. No doubt. But even assuming that there's a bona fide reason for shortening your stay on the planet, why include someone else in that? As usual, my question relates to a case I'm working on. Aside from being the vivacious bon vivant my friends all know and love, I'm an ATF-trained arson prosecutor. You'd never know by looking, eh? Oh, and I mean the training on how to investigate and prosecute arsons, not how to commit them. Just figured I'd make that clear, in light of that pesky ATF/Waco dealio. So I've got this case comes across my desk where one guy decides he's going to blow himself to bits. Efficient. I have no problem with that, as long as it's away from others. However, he decides to do it in his place of employment. Pulls out the gas stove from the wall, turns the radio on, and sits down for the long sleep. A neighbor boy, about 20, smells gas. He sees the guy and runs in to pull him out of the small building. Well, suicide king gets pissed and ends up igniting the gas...building goes boom. Boy of twenty now has burns over fifty percent of his body and may not live. Suicide king has burns, but of course, not nearly as serious as the poor kid who went in to save his sorry ass. The rub in all this is that 20-year-old good Samaritan's mother got to stand by the sidelines and watch her son's clothes burn onto his body. Right in front of her eyes. Man. No good deed goes unpunished. Sometimes it sure seems that way.
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From: [identity profile] seventhsister.livejournal.com

makes me so


sad. Cate, you sound like such a wonderful woman. A real inspiration for me.

From: [identity profile] blackhellkat.livejournal.com


I just shake my head sometimes when I read about cases like this. I think I'll reserve my comment about Mr. Suicide King since it wouldn't be very kind.

WOW arson prosecutor! Arson cases are tough....I'm always amazed how the can collect evidence from arson sites.

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From: [identity profile] catelin.livejournal.com

Re: makes me so


Thank you! Likewise! Considering the source, that's a grand compliment for me! : )
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From: [identity profile] catelin.livejournal.com


Arson cases are fascinating from an evidence point of view--real Sherlock Holmes stuff. The total devastation in an arson case (unfortunately, most of the arsons I deal with involve deaths and/or injuries) is hard to stomach sometimes. Kid cases and burn cases are the ones that stick to the inside of my head. How's the law school saga going? Have you heard anything from anyone yet? Or decided on a school?

From: [identity profile] blackhellkat.livejournal.com

Re:


I've sent in my deposit for Catholic University but it is SO expensive I'd rather go somewhere a bit more economical. I really want to go to University of Maryland (in state tuition and good ranking) but they have a recodrd number of applicants this year so I'm on priority wait list...although I was accepted for 2002 but I'm not sure I wanna wait. Its gonna be a down to the wire nail-biter decision.

From: [identity profile] budhaboy.livejournal.com


not to seem like too much of a smart-ass, but did you really need ATF arson training to figure this one out?

:)

grim story.
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From: [identity profile] catelin.livejournal.com

Re:


I know exactly how you feel. I got wait-listed to UCLA, but I was so ready to get started and so afraid they might not have room for me that I went to Loyola instead. I actually got a better education, I think, attending the smaller school. I have no regrets, except for when I write my student loan checks.

From: [identity profile] wisteria.livejournal.com

Wowzer Cate!


First of all...I just shudder at the case. That poor mother and son. I better just keep my trap shut regarding the other guy.
Secondly......Wow! The multifacited Cate! You never cease to amaze me! A mother, an artist, and a but kickin ATF lawyer!!! hehe! I imagine sometimes it would be hard not to be mulling it over at home....your's does not seem like the kind of job you can just "leave at the office".
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From: [identity profile] catelin.livejournal.com

Even Smartasses get eaten in the Andes


Heh! What you know and what you can prove are sometimes two different things. Physical evidence is where it's at, baby! For instance, in this case, what if my victim dies? The other guy could say that HE started the explosion. "I had fallen asleep, and didn't realize the gas was on. Then this kid came in and he must have lit a cigarette or something. I don't know." I'd have to find physical evidence on the scene to rebut his story. The one thing in this business that I learned through the school of hard knocks is that nothing is EVER as you think it's gonna be.

From: [identity profile] blackhellkat.livejournal.com

Re:


Well the thought of 40 thousand versus eight thousand dollars makes me break out in hives....yet I feel an enormous pressure to keep moving and go this fall to the more expensive school because of my age (for some reason I just feel like I'm behind the rest of the "class")
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From: [identity profile] catelin.livejournal.com

Re: Wowzer Cate!


Hehe! I don't actually work for the ATF. They trained me, but they don't own me. Feh! I'd never be able to work for the feds. But that's an entirely different story. : ) Believe it or not, most of the time you can put things out of your mind. There are just images that pop up once in a while...sort of twinges from cases past. That's to be expected though, when you see things that shouldn't be forgetten--ever.
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From: [identity profile] catelin.livejournal.com

Re:


I think I was almost 27 when I started law school. I was older than most of the kids, but I never felt like I was behind. Shit, girlfriend, it wasn't like you were just twiddlin' yer thumbs!! I think you'll find being older makes the entire process more manageable. : )
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From: [identity profile] catelin.livejournal.com

Re: Wowzer Cate!


Er, make that "forgotten"...I actually do know how to spell. Some words, anyway. : ) Der!

From: [identity profile] blackhellkat.livejournal.com

Re:


Oh well I'm just not handling the big 3-0 very well at ALL! (I'm pretty anti-birthday all around actually) GAAAAH everytime I turn around I see a news story on some wunderkid who has saved the entire rain forest and is only 19!

From: [identity profile] curtankerous.livejournal.com


Wow. Tough stuff.

As difficult as some of these cases can be for you, I am glad to see that you enjoy attacking them with a direct detail-oriented fury and also that you have such strong empathy for your victims. It's a rare prosecutor that makes such a deep and personal investment in their cases. Cheers to you!
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From: [identity profile] catelin.livejournal.com


Really? That surprises me. Thirty didn't bother me so much. Thirty-five bothered me a lot. Thirty-six REALLY freaked me out, because I couldn't ignore the fact that I was getting older anymore. I made my peace with it...sort of. I just keep thinking of all the great-looking women who are in their 40s...and then I remember THEY'VE probably all had work done. Heh! An older friend of mine (he's probably in his mid-fifties) told me that I should be reveling in the fact that I'm at a point where I'm equally attractive to 28 & 58 year-olds. That made me laugh! Never thought of it that way. Most of my concerns have been so superficial, though; I can't even really gripe in earnest. ; )

From: [identity profile] razorart.livejournal.com


That case reminds me of a book I read in the mid-80's where a father actually tried to burn his son alive (I forget the kid's name) to get back his ex wife for some bullshit.

The kid lived--in pain and disfigured, getting constant skin grafts, etc. The last I saw him, on some talk show or something, he still looked like a serious burn victim.

What a sick fuck of a person to do that to anyone, no less your child.
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From: [identity profile] catelin.livejournal.com


Gracias. One of my most formidable opponents (with whom I get on very well outside of the courtroom--he's a prince) described my courtroom demeanor as "a pit bull in a mother hen suit." That cracks me up!
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From: [identity profile] catelin.livejournal.com


That sick fuck is Charles Rothenberg. His son David was 6 years old when he doused him with kerosene and set him on fire. Left him with serious burns over 90% of his body. Served 6 1/2 years of a measly 13-year sentence. Call me unevolved, but I could put a bullet in this prick's brain today and it wouldn't even raise my pulse rate.

From: [identity profile] budhaboy.livejournal.com

Re: Even Smartasses get eaten in the Andes


umm... what about the testimony of the mother that watched the kid go in? couldn't she testify to smelling the gas?

From: [identity profile] razorart.livejournal.com


Yes, that's who I mean. The book was one of the few that had me sobbing for hours.

>>Call me unevolved, but I could put a bullet in this prick's brain today and it wouldn't even raise my pulse rate.

Here here, well put. I didn't know that he only served 6 1/2 years. I just...cannot...believe it.

Have you heard anything about how David is now? He must be around 20 or something.
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From: [identity profile] catelin.livejournal.com

Re: Even Smartasses get eaten in the Andes


Remember, though; we don't just have to prove something happened. We have to prove it was an intentional (or sometimes a knowing, reckless, or negligent--depending on the legal standard) act by the defendant. The only ones who saw exactly what went on inside were the boy who got burned and the defendant. Mom didn't even know he'd gone in until it was too late. Her smelling gas is a neutral fact...doesn't go to prove the guilt or innocence of the guy. Forensics aren't a substitute for eyewitnesses in most cases, but they're a darn good supplement.
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From: [identity profile] catelin.livejournal.com


I haven't seen anything about him for several years. I do remember some awkward human interest pieces from his teen years in which he seemed as well adjusted as one could expect. Nonetheless, it's heartbreaking. I can't think of a more painful (both physically and emotionally) type of violence that I've seen inflicted on a person...and I've seen lots. Humans. Some of us just suck ass.

From: (Anonymous)


"Call me unevolved, but I could put a bullet in this prick's brain today and it wouldn't even raise my pulse rate."

Okay--now I'm impressed.

From: [identity profile] sorrento.livejournal.com


at the moment i'm angry. it's not serving any purpose. just have to be more aware of these pricks and the harm they can do to others.
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